Stop using XVM nightly builds

[PunchFox]

Hello,

I noticed that you recently switched to stable builds, specifically, after having to revert back to a previous build because of bugs/user issues. I thought you would stick to using the stable version for good, but in the latest update, you went back to using the nightly build.... Why are you doing this?

To quote from the official XVM website at http://www.modxvm.com/en/download-xvm/

is the latest test version of the XVM mod. The archive contains mod files with new features that are currently in active development. Versions that carry the “test” suffix are not recommended for use by players who are inexperienced with the XVM mod.

In other words, the nightly version is NOT stable (unlike the aptly named "stable version") and is prone to bugs, issues, etc, as you should have already noticed in v4.2.18 of your mod installer. Furthermore, for a long time (since 9.5, to be specific) I couldn't even use Aslain's at all, because it was using the nightly version, which had an error that was causing me to constantly crash on match load. Only when Aslain's finally switched over to the stable version after the 9.6 update, did this issue disappear. Now you are switching back to the nightly.

I really do appreciate the Aslain's mod pack. It is the most thorough and customizable mod installer I have yet to find, but the fact that it relies on an UNSTABLE nightly version is really a glaring flaw. What reasoning is behind this choice? Why is sticking to the stable version not an option?

Please, stop using the nightly version, because as it is, I refuse to download recent Aslain updates, since I would rather keep the version that uses a stable build of XVM (I'm on v4.2.20 atm).

I know I'm repeating myself at this point, but I feel like I can't stress myself enough: The nightly build is NOT for regular use. Please don't use it. Use the stable version. Because it's stable.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you take this into consideration.

[Aslain]

I switch to nightly when it's safe and needed. The so called XVM "stable" version aren't always so stable, and they release fixes in nightly builds. I released latest nightly build to fix the minimap clicking bug that appared recently, probably caused by wg minipatch.

 

Sometimes they wait with releasing stable version, while their latest XVM is bugged, and what would you do in this case? Wait forever for a fix because you are scared of the name "nighly build"? :)

[thevbm]

somewhat random commit is taken and then tagged and released as 'stable' ... so using 'nightly' is not any different.

 

It's quite unfortunate that they dont have proper release environment nor they have proper tests. Pretty much you can see a lot of commits that are "fix" and you see nothing with actual fix for exact problem they claim they've fixed :P

 

But KUDOS to XVM team for even making something like that.

[PunchFox]

somewhat random commit is taken and then tagged and released as 'stable' ... so using 'nightly' is not any different.

 

It's quite unfortunate that they dont have proper release environment nor they have proper tests. Pretty much you can see a lot of commits that are "fix" and you see nothing with actual fix for exact problem they claim they've fixed :P

 

But KUDOS to XVM team for even making something like that.

I don't know anything about the XVM-specific development process, so please let me know if you're more familiar with it, but on a general basis, no, stable commits are NOT randomly decided. They are labeled as stable because the dev team feels that they are feature-complete, and that there are not any known major bugs. Of course, mistakes will always happen, but with nightly builds, they are not even trying to create a bug-free build. It's simply a mid-way point between stable releases for the dev team and other contributors to keep track of progress, whatever state that progress may be in.

Again, if you happen to be a contributor to the XVM project and know something more then I do, please let me know. :)

 

I switch to nightly when it's safe and needed. The so called XVM "stable" version aren't always so stable, and they release fixes in nightly builds. I released latest nightly build to fix the minimap clicking bug that appared recently, probably caused by wg minipatch.

 

Sometimes they wait with releasing stable version, while their latest XVM is bugged, and what would you do in this case? Wait forever for a fix because you are scared of the name "nighly build"? :)

The problem is that it is never "safe" to use a nightly build. The description of their nightly build which I quoted in my initial post explains why this is the case, as well as my explanation of the build process, and stable vs nightly labels.

You do bring up a valid point in the case of quick-releases after recent WG updates, or previously unknown bugs in the stable version. However, as I also said in my initial post, these nightly versions, even if they inlude one or two fixes for something which may be causing issues in a "stable" build, are VERY likely to have tons of bugs for other things, so you are really just trading one issue for a dozen others.

As I stated before, for a long time, I couldn't even run your mod installer, because the nightly version was causing consistent crashes since 9.5. This issue only disappeared when you switched back to the stable.

I have a solution though: How about include an option where users can select which build they want to use? You can include both a stable build, and the latest nightly build you deem "necessary".

On a similar note, I noticed that even when you entirely de-select XVM from your mod installer, it still slips an XVM build into my mods folder. This is entirely unnecessary, and exacerbates the issue. I originally tried using your mod installer while deselecting XVM, hoping I could use the mods that don't require it without issue, but this proved fruitless, since your installer gave me XVM anyways, and the crashes continues, even though I wasn't actually using it at all.

In the end, I needed to gather up my individual mods and package them together, which is really a big painful hassle compared to the ease of use your installer gives me. :)

So, in summary: If you must continue supplying nightly builds, please include a secondary stable build which I have the option to use, and as well, please make it possible to deselect XVM such that your mod installer will NOT install it at all. If you made these two changes, your already great installer would be even better.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond, I really do appreciate it, and I look forward to seeing what you think of my own responses and suggested solutions!

[ddaniel51]

Actually Aslain has provided a solution for you to stay with a "stable" build.  Download the stable build of your choice, zip it up properly and put it in the Aslains_Custom_Mods folder.  It will overwrite the xvm Aslain is using after every install.

 

I use the folder to drop in my custom configs after each install.

[PunchFox]

That's great to know, and I'll keep it in mind. Definitely solves the problem of wanting to stick to a stable version, and I will do this immediately. However, I still think that implementing a simplistic, no-muss option which doesn't require me to run around downloading individual packs (the main reason I like Aslain's) and lets me choose between the latest stable version, and Aslain's choice of nightly, would round out his mod pack installer very nicely.

It also doesn't solve the issue of wanting to forego XVM entirely - To see what I mean, try deselecting XVM entirely, and then install Aslain's pack. Then check your res_mods folder. XVM will still be there, and World of Tanks will still load it. This should be changed.

EDIT: But now that I think about it, one of the other reasons I like Aslain's is because it lets me easily configure XVM its self... for example, I hate the modified damage display, as well as the modifications it makes to the little displays above each tank in battle. I usually disable these options in Aslain's, and just use the rating feature. Ever since the official online XVM editor became obsolete, it's a real pain to modify the XVM config, so I still think it would far more preferable to include the two builds officially through the installer, so that you can use his configuration tool on them.

Having said that, can someone please direct me to a tutorial or give me a brief explanation on how to disable all the fancy shmancy UI modifications which XVM makes? :) All I really want is to see the WN8 numbers next to player's names on the info panel, and have them colored appropriately.

[PunchFox]

Um, bump? Did Aslain really move my topic out of the Issues section, just so he could ignore it? This is still an issue...

[Aslain]

It fits here more than in the issues section. You may discuss it here. As for ignore, well I already stated my point of view, won't change it. :(

[PunchFox]

You do bring up a valid point in the case of quick-releases after recent WG updates, or previously unknown bugs in the stable version. However, as I also said in my initial post, these nightly versions, even if they inlude one or two fixes for something which may be causing issues in a "stable" build, are VERY likely to have tons of bugs for other things, so you are really just trading one issue for a dozen others.

As I stated before, for a long time, I couldn't even run your mod installer, because the nightly version was causing consistent crashes since 9.5. This issue only disappeared when you switched back to the stable.

....

On a similar note, I noticed that even when you entirely de-select XVM from your mod installer, it still slips an XVM build into my mods folder. This is entirely unnecessary, and exacerbates the issue. I originally tried using your mod installer while deselecting XVM, hoping I could use the mods that don't require it without issue, but this proved fruitless, since your installer gave me XVM anyways, and the crashes continues, even though I wasn't actually using it at all.

....

So, in summary: If you must continue supplying nightly builds, please include a secondary stable build which I have the option to use, and as well, please make it possible to deselect XVM such that your mod installer will NOT install it at all. If you made these two changes, your already great installer would be even better.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond, I really do appreciate it, and I look forward to seeing what you think of my own responses and suggested solutions!

I made one suggestion that still allows you to include the nightly build, and I also mentioned a separate, but related, issue. Will you please comment on them?

[PunchFox]

Bump?