Nomogram Dynamic Crosshair is super interesting... but super confusing.

[JadedDragoon]

I found this thread here on the subject (it's actually the top hit on google for "nomogram crosshair"), but what @r82ko said about having to adjust my aim based on shell travel time does not make sense. It also does not match what I'm experiencing using this crosshair in-game. If the crosshair demarkations were based on shell travel time it would make no sense for the whole crosshair to resize based on firing angle (distance to target) as well... as distance to target, firing angle, and shell travel time are all very closely related anyway. So the resizing aspect of this dynamic crosshair should already be negating any need to adjust for travel time. Only that's not my experience either.

Does anyone know how the nomogram crosshair is actually supposed to be used? For now, I've no choice but to switch back to the default dynamic crosshair. But I remain intrigued by this new one.

[Quaksen]

If the enemy ship is sailing in a straight line, full on broadside to you, then the ticks on the crosshair matches perfectly when it comes to speed.

 

If shell time is 5 seconds, travelling speed is 30 knots, it'll hit where the 5 marker is.

 

Going on angles, it becomes your job to figure out where to aim honestly.

 

When you zoom in, and things resize, it's to avoid having the markers on the crosshair be different from what you're seeing (like a standard crosshair, non-dynamic, stuff gets weird... hehe)

[JadedDragoon]

That's how the default dynamic crosshair works. The one built into the game. I'm talking about the nomogram's crosshair included in Aslain's since about August.

[Quaksen]

I know. And that's how Nomogram works too.

 

I'm using it myself.

 

Nomogram has marks above the line for 30 knots, and below the line for 20 knots.

[JadedDragoon]

Wha? But the built-in dynamic crosshair doesn't change scale base on the distance to target... nomogram's does. They can't possibly be operated the same because they behave fundamentally different. And, in testing, nomogram's cannot be used with shell flight times... as at different distances, due to the crosshair changing scale, the distance a ship travels at a given speed over a same amount of time is different relative to the crosshair's scale. At a range of about 20km what you say seems to hold true... but closer it would be off wildly.

I'm not trying to be a problem. It's just what your saying is... it's like if someone walked up to you and told you the earth had three moons with such total seriousness that you completely believed they believed what they were saying. I don't know how but I can only conclude that for some reason nomogram's crosshair is functioning completely differently for you than for me. A bug of some kind?

Perhaps I should simply record it in video and load it on Youtube to demonstrate what I mean.

[Quaksen]

Pretty sure both crosshairs behave the same - in that the markers change, to accomodate when you zoom in/out.

 

Zooming in, you'll see less markers, but they'll still be showing where to aim, based on 30/20 knots, and then the time to target.

 

The only difference between the two, that I found, is the fact that Nomogram has the 20 knots marker below the line, while the normal Dynamic only has the 30 knots one..

 

I guess I'll have to go see now, hehe.. time to figure out how to remove the crosshair without reinstalling modpack.

[JadedDragoon]

Yes, they change based on zoom in both nomograms and the default to counteract the difference in scale caused by the change in zoom. But in nomogram's it also changes just by moving the mouse up and down. No zooming needed. I shall make a video.

[Quaksen]

The change in moving up/down, is to better show you the scale, since the scale changes...

If you focus on a target, zoom in/out, or move up/down, you'll see the marker stays on the target.

 

Makes perfect sense to me at least, that the scale changes, when you move the crosshair up.. it needs to accomodate for the change in distance, based on your zoom as well.

 

Just aligned on 10 on the upper scale, for about 10 seconds flight time, it landed closer to 11-12, because the Neptune sails faster than 30 knots.

 

If it didn't change (like the non-Dynamic crosshairs), when you moved the crosshair up/down or zoomed in/out, the markers wouldn't scale properly.

[Quaksen]

I think the underlying problem here, is probably:

Default dynamic crosshair is calibrated for 15 km range.

And Nomogram adjusts accordingly, so the shell flight time should always be matching the notches, regardless of range?

[JadedDragoon]

So this is what I mean. Is this consistent with what you're seeing?

[Quaksen]

Yeah, it is

 

That's actually what my last post was about

[JadedDragoon]

That's what all my posts have been about. :-/

Ok, so.... let's walk through this:

 

With the default dynamic crosshair, the crosshair does not automatically adjust its scale for distance. Because it does not automatically adjust its scale for distance we have to do so manually. This is because the further away we are firing the longer it takes our shots to reach that location... and thus the further we must lead our target. Or, in other words, shell flight time is a function of distance. To make up for the default dynamic crosshair's failure to automatically adjust for the distance (~flight time) we take the anticipated flight time of the shells (~distance), multiply by a factor based on the anticipated speed of the enemy vessel relative to what the scope is calibrated for, and place the closest matching notch on the reticule at the tip of the enemy ship's bow. Easy peezy, lemon squeezy. I've been doing this for well over a year now and I'm a dead shot with my NC, Iowa, and Montie. With the default dynamic crosshair, the notches match the shell travel time.

The nomogram dynamic reticule, however, does automatically adjust for distance. And being that the shell flight time is a function of distance, that means Nomogram's is also (approximately) adjusting for shell flight time... automatically. So why, if this crosshair automatically adjusts for distance (~flight time) must I also manually adjust for flight time (~distance) again? What should happen is that no matter what the distance to target... or the shell travel time... the notch I use should only be affected by the enemy ships' speed. But this does not seem to be the case. Instead, it's like Nomogram's is over-adjusting. It also means that if I do try to adjust for shell travel time my shots will go wildly off-target... because the shell travel time doesn't match the notches (except perhaps at a specific range). And in fact, this has been demonstrably true for me when I have played with nomogram's crosshair... when adjusting based on shell travel time seems to inconsistently lead to missing enemy targets by up to an entire ship's length.

So... I can't reconcile what you are telling me with my first-hand experience. And I don't understand why. I guess I'll just have to keep using the default dynamic. Not the end of the world for sure... I'm quite good with it already. Still bugs me though. By all rights nomograms should be simpler to use because it should make it no longer necessary to manually adjust based on distance.

Edited December 22, 2017 by JadedDragoon

[Quaksen]

I guess there was a misunderstanding somewhere then, sorry. 

 

No clue, to be honest, why you're having issues hitting with Nomogram..

 

I guess I'll try to pay more attention in the next battles, to see how the shells matches the notches.

 - The only thing that comes to mind, really, is the enemy ship speed causing the misses... but you're saying the shell time doesn't match the notches. 

If firing on a ship going on a 90-degree angle, the notches should match perfectly for ships going 30 or 20 knots, and manually compensating for speeds between or above that.

[r82ko]

And little addition here. With two scales you can easily calculate lead for speeds 40 knt by multiplying lower scale ×2,for 25 knt you take middle between higher and lower scale, and for 35 kn you can take middle between higher and ×2 multiplied (for 40 knt) lower scale.

[r82ko]

hope this pic from creator of this mod helps you a little.

30 узлов - 30 knots

5 секунд - 5 seconds

[jerrodnorton]

would this crosshair system be affected by resolution? I've moved to a superwide screen monitor and *feel* like my accuracy has dropped - which could be confirmation bias, but I thought I would ask at least!  :-)