Arty farty

[The_Ninja_Gaiden]

So given the new fixes "Nerfs" to Arty in the game.  What do people want to see them do to fix this issue.  Me personally id like them to stop messing with Arty and just limit it to 2 per random and unless its t10 make say tr 8 arty always be in tr 7 to 9 games and so on.

 

Personally i'm not an arty player.  I cant stand playing arty.

 

But I also love to see them in games but do get pissed when you have 3 or 4 in 1 game and you get focused.  Its a bitch but then again so is life and its just a game.  I actually go out of my way to pm arty players if they have a good game.  I miss enemy chat as I loved saying nice kill streak to them or bloody nice shot well played (I don't ever rage at my own team or enemy I don't see the point)

 

So views and onions under here 

 

V  

 

Glad I wasnt in that tank

 

V V V V V V V V V 

[Quaksen]

Hehe... WG as usual doing changes...

 

Announcing those arty changes.. yet if they're not met with positive comments during test.. they might actually remove arty all together.. though not sure that'll happen.

Imagine the compensation they'd have to give everyone.. arty players with sick crews and what not. Sure the crews can always be used in other tanks, but meh.. 

 

We'll just have to wait and see

 

(I hope they change more than just the arty personal missions... since there's missions for light tanks to kill or damage arties.. and if they get even more limited in numbers per game, it'll be even harder to do those missions.. same goes for matchmaker changes to tank destroyers.. meh.. who knows what WG will do.)

[The_Ninja_Gaiden]

15 hours ago, Quaksen said:

Hehe... WG as usual doing changes...

 

Announcing those arty changes.. yet if they're not met with positive comments during test.. they might actually remove arty all together.. though not sure that'll happen.

Imagine the compensation they'd have to give everyone.. arty players with sick crews and what not. Sure the crews can always be used in other tanks, but meh.. 

 

We'll just have to wait and see

 

(I hope they change more than just the arty personal missions... since there's missions for light tanks to kill or damage arties.. and if they get even more limited in numbers per game, it'll be even harder to do those missions.. same goes for matchmaker changes to tank destroyers.. meh.. who knows what WG will do.)

they just need to start listening to all the community not just the hardcore purples and blues.  

 

Still waiting for the hardcore insane premium Russian arty to come out they introduced so many Russian premiums its beyond a joke.  How many t8 Russian heavies are there now.........

 

They just need to focus on it all rather than little un needed fixes. and stop talking about taking away arty ability to one shot people or take it away from everyone.  imagine the rag of a t10 not being able to 1 shot a t7 scout.

 

[central]

Is it just me, or are is WG trying to placate a few vocal arty haters?

It really sucks when arty gets a good RNG shot into a LT or light med at full speed(these shots are often fired by tomatoes/bots and I would guess weren't fully aimed or even aimed at that particular spot particularly just lucky RNG) this happens but its hard to see how to fix that.

Lets face it the majority of arty hits could be avoided with better play, I say this as an arty player. especially the tier 5-6-7 British arty or similar guns with very slow shell velocity.

What they seem to be doing now is making it very hard to play lightly armored tanks with arty firing more often more accurately better aim time and huge splash. RIP active spotting.

RIP the Bishop and fv304 who will know have an amazing 28.5mm penetration. it used to be a matter of skill to damage heavily armored veichles in those, no more. I guess RIP lefh as well.

But woe unto you if you drive a tank without armor you will now be only target that can be hit...

 

 

 

[central]

About MM as well is it just me but I saw nothing wrong with MM except at tier 4 and tier 3 a bit with a very low likelihood of being top tier and  often at the bottom with a majority of higher tier tanks, But why kill the whole matchmaker?  Whats wrong with some variety and actually getting to really be low tier and high tier?

Imagine how rare top tier will become once every 5 games at best you will never do better than that.

This also means that records will be harder to break now as there will simply be much less HP in a given game with any tank. Think about it.

Also OP tanks will now be top tier by themselves much more often imagine a KV-1 or better yet a KV-220 as top tier every third tier 5 game.

In higher tiers it wont be as bad as difference btw tiers is largest at lower tier which was a big part of reason MM was broken low tier in the first place.

 (A full health tier 3 tank played by a decent player has little chance against an average player playing in most tier 5 tanks with 25% health remaining this is not true in higher tiers).

MM at lower tiers can be fixed by simply putting tier 5 and 6 in fewer games with tier 4 and tier 3.

 

 

[Quaksen]

The most "fun" changes with the matchmaker will be:

Imagine 3-man tier 10 platoon, being the only tier 10's, rest will be tier 9 and 8. Yeah.....

And changes till matchmaker will also screw some Personal Missions... they are changing the arty ones based on arty changes.. but what about missions that are also dependant on the matchmaker - such as killing/damaging multiple arty in a game... reduction to 3 as max, will make those harder, especially the ones to hit/kill 3 arties.

Or being tier 8, and having to kill 2 tanks 2 tiers above you (when the max will be 3... and out of those 3, 2 would have to be heavy tanks, and you NEED to kill BOTH)...

Yeah, not really looking forward to it - but hopefully they'll change/fix those missions too... eventually... not gonna hold my breath though.

[central]

I'm not too worried about those missions, 4 arties and above was a rare thing anyhow, besides with that line of reasoning you can argue those missions are easier now as MM will be more likely to put 3 SPG in any given match no more 12 battles in a row without 3 SPG.

But that toon sends chills up my spine...

Though I hear WG will only match a toon with a toon of similar tier (RIP short waiting times) so to make it better imagine purple toon VS red toon that'll be just great.

But really what was wrong up to now I though MM was great for the most part.

 

[Quaksen]

Just now, central said:

I'm not too worried about those missions, 4 arties and above was a rare thing anyhow

At least it was possible, and made the missions easier, I doubt that 3 arties in a match will be common.

 

Heh, yeah... purple platoon vs red will be such "fun"

 

They're changing tank destroyer distribution too - which could mess with the missions to damage those - but we'll see when they release, of course.

[central]

But PLEASE what was wrong with a little random variety in tank classes.

99% of those who chat "we have no heavies gg" don't have the foggiest notions of how to play the game. I'm not saying that its never a handicap only that it can be part of a healthy MM and is far less damaging then reds vs blues.

[Quaksen]

Just now, central said:

But PLEASE what was wrong with a little random variety in tank classes.

99% of those who chat "we have no heavies gg" don't have the foggiest notions of how to play the game. I'm not saying that its never a handicap only that it can be part of a healthy MM and is far less damaging then reds vs blues.

Yeah, sometimes the variation is a bit crazy - but - most of the time it's not THAT terrible - just requires adjusting playstyle - and requires teamwork - something that should be in the game, but many people just do their own thing, ignoring the team, and well - they usually have red stats

Funny thing is that they feel tank destroyers are strong, so they limit them like SPG and lights..

But a bunch of mediums vs a bunch of heavy tanks can be unbalanced too.

Ah well - this is Wargaming we're talking about... the company that just recently released a series of patches, first going to .01, then .02, then .03, and back to .01 because the others didn't work properly. (World of Warships)

[central]

You probably don't paly arty much. But I'm about to watch my beloved Bishop who is doing 63% Wr (that's a nice carry tank not a RNG machine) become a tank that cant carry its own shoes...

[Quaksen]

Just now, central said:

You probably don't paly arty much. But I'm about to watch my beloved Bishop who is doing 63% Wr (that's a nice carry tank not a RNG machine) become a tank that cant carry its own shoes...

Hehe no, I'm not a big arty player  but I do know that playing arty, you're guaranteed to see other arty.

So obviously a platoon of light + 2 arty, should guarantee meeting 2 arties, and increase chances of meeting 3.

Ah well. I'll worry about those missions eventually.. first I need to actually get back into playing random battles

[central]

Thankfully they ran a togfest a few days ago where I was (finally) able to 3rd mark the Bishop and actually got what may be the highest dmg(4731) ever done in Bishop game (though I admit it wasn't a particularly good game had team help up a little better I prob could've done closer to 6.5K)

Bishop 4731 lost.wotreplay

bishop 3.5 dmg.wotreplay

bishop RW.wotreplay

Thers got to be someone somewhere that really knows how the m.o.e works I was able to do very high dmg consistently but its still wasn't enough to get 3rd mark while on other tanks dmg that high would've gotten it really easily.

Edited April 5, 2017 by central

[HerbertNimble]

1 hour ago, central said:

But PLEASE what was wrong with a little random variety in tank classes.

99% of those who chat "we have no heavies gg" don't have the foggiest notions of how to play the game. I'm not saying that its never a handicap only that it can be part of a healthy MM and is far less damaging then reds vs blues.

Well, I'm not saying it's commonplace but how about a team with 8+ tds and the opponents mostly fast lights/mediums..

 

The TDs should've had the same treatment as arties from the start in my opinion. Not because they are too strong but rather because too many of them on one side unbalances the teams, not necessarily in that teams favour.

[central]

hey 1 minute there.

LT were always weighed against LT so you mean 8 TDs against 8 fast meds c'mon I win the lottery that often.

[HerbertNimble]

Well, I did specify that they needed to be fast lights/mediums and the emphasis was more on fast than on light/medium.

 

Either way, in general, TDs are a long way from normal tanks.

 

To be honest, I don't like the classification in WoT at all when I think of it.

 

How is it fair to match a T67 with an AT2?

Or an Scorpion G with an T28?

 

Classification, or at least matchmaking, should be weighed on the role of the vehicle rather than just the classification. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by HerbertNimble

[central]

My main point is not that that tanks are about equal they surely are not. Rather that there is nothing wrong with the random variety in  the current matchmaker you win some you lose some. I repeat,  having a 14% chance to win is a far worse problem and incidentally having a 84% chance to win is often just as bad... 

[HerbertNimble]

I agree that you should win some and that you definitely should loose some. However, I don't think it's right that the outcome of a match should be due to the composition of the team in regards to which tanks are in your team but that it should rather depend on the skill of the players in the teams.

 

Those two aspects aren't (necessarily) related. The weighing of tanks should be based on the tanks alone and nothing else.

Edited April 5, 2017 by HerbertNimble

[The_Ninja_Gaiden]

18 hours ago, Quaksen said:

Hehe no, I'm not a big arty player  but I do know that playing arty, you're guaranteed to see other arty.

So obviously a platoon of light + 2 arty, should guarantee meeting 2 arties, and increase chances of meeting 3.

Ah well. I'll worry about those missions eventually.. first I need to actually get back into playing random battles

yeah im not a fan or randoms and avoid playing them as much as possible.  then again havnt played properly for quite some time

 

13 hours ago, central said:

hey 1 minute there.

LT were always weighed against LT so you mean 8 TDs against 8 fast meds c'mon I win the lottery that often.

i think it should be a random mix up, no set numbers of heavier mediums light or td per team, it should be a random mix will make the game so much more interesting and so you have td's and mediums and lights and  arty, play it for the td's light up those heavies and let the td's rip.  so many games ive seen the comment well done wg no heavies bla bal to watch the enemy team fall to pieces.  Excuse typos my mind is up my arse atm and cant concentrate for thinking 

[HerbertNimble]

I don't mind having no heavies, they're really not that vital. However, having a good mix of tanks is far more fun and interesting than just random tanks with no regards to class and/or role of a vehicle.

[dwarfsetsfire]

On 3/31/2017 at 0:37 PM, Capt_Reginald_Black said:

Me personally id like them to stop messing with Arty and just limit it to 2 per random and unless its t10 make say tr 8 arty always be in tr 7 to 9 games and so on.

 

This right here is my idea of a prefect way to do it. I simply don't like being in matches with 4-5 arty's at a time, its nuts.

 

[HerbertNimble]

Below are a few examples of stupid matchmaking..
 

First one:

 

2 vs 3 HT

2 vs 6 MT

3 vs 2 LT

7 vs 3 TD

1 v 1 SPG

 

The defending team has a clear advantage in mobility when it comes to the HT/MT. Centurion, Cromwell and the Strv 42-57 are all decently mobile.

The light tanks are clearly more mobile and agile on the defending team.

Out of the 7 TDs in my team, 5 does not have a turret. While both the AT-15A and the M56 Scorpion has quite wide turret-traverse, neither are very suited to take on mobile, turreted opponents. The defending team are all turreted and quite mobile ones.

 

I see these kind of matchups quite frequently. I'm not saying it's impossible to play these teams but the team with a majority of TDs tend to resort to camping and, in this case, on an assault-map, that's just not going to be very helpful.

 

This game was lost.
 

 

Second one:

 

2 vs 4 HT

4 vs 1 MT

4 vs 4 LT

3 vs 4 TD

2 vs 2 SPG

 

The class-distribution in this match is more equal but it was a devastating loss at 1-15! Mostly due to the opposing team being a lot more experienced players.

 

Third one:

2 vs 8 HT

5 vs 4 MT

1 vs 1 LT

7 vs 2 TD

 

Again a very boring and unbalanced matchmaking when it comes to TDs. The first half of the game was mostly spent in the north-east corner camping for most of the team. Only myself (in the M56 Scorpion) and two others went down to the coastal town and guess what we met up with? Yep, most of their heavy line. Sure, I could've gone to the camp-site in the corner as well but I find that to be rather boring and uninteresting if I'm in a rather mobile TD.

 

I think we managed to win that last one somehow but yeah, not a very fun matchmaking anyway.

 

Fourth one:

 

3 vs 3 HT

2 vs 4 MT

1 vs 1 LT

6 vs 3 TD

3 vs 4 SPG

 

This last one was, not surprisingly, a clear victory for the defenders with only two of their SPGs and one TD left when the time ran out.

[The_Ninja_Gaiden]

1 hour ago, HerbertNimble said:

Below are a few examples of stupid matchmaking..
 

First one:

 

2 vs 3 HT

2 vs 6 MT

3 vs 2 LT

7 vs 3 TD

1 v 1 SPG

 

The defending team has a clear advantage in mobility when it comes to the HT/MT. Centurion, Cromwell and the Strv 42-57 are all decently mobile.

The light tanks are clearly more mobile and agile on the defending team.

Out of the 7 TDs in my team, 5 does not have a turret. While both the AT-15A and the M56 Scorpion has quite wide turret-traverse, neither are very suited to take on mobile, turreted opponents. The defending team are all turreted and quite mobile ones.

 

I see these kind of matchups quite frequently. I'm not saying it's impossible to play these teams but the team with a majority of TDs tend to resort to camping and, in this case, on an assault-map, that's just not going to be very helpful.

 

This game was lost.
 

 

Second one:

 

2 vs 4 HT

4 vs 1 MT

4 vs 4 LT

3 vs 4 TD

2 vs 2 SPG

 

The class-distribution in this match is more equal but it was a devastating loss at 1-15! Mostly due to the opposing team being a lot more experienced players.

 

Third one:

2 vs 8 HT

5 vs 4 MT

1 vs 1 LT

7 vs 2 TD

 

Again a very boring and unbalanced matchmaking when it comes to TDs. The first half of the game was mostly spent in the north-east corner camping for most of the team. Only myself (in the M56 Scorpion) and two others went down to the coastal town and guess what we met up with? Yep, most of their heavy line. Sure, I could've gone to the camp-site in the corner as well but I find that to be rather boring and uninteresting if I'm in a rather mobile TD.

 

I think we managed to win that last one somehow but yeah, not a very fun matchmaking anyway.

 

Fourth one:

 

3 vs 3 HT

2 vs 4 MT

1 vs 1 LT

6 vs 3 TD

3 vs 4 SPG

 

This last one was, not surprisingly, a clear victory for the defenders with only two of their SPGs and one TD left when the time ran out.

 

The problem is your going off stats as well.  the biggest problem allot of players have (I used t be one of them)  is we look at a set up and say ohh this is a loss.  we set ourselves up to loose.

 

Turn off that win rate and color sceme and just crack on.  Ever since I turned xvm stats and win rate off I find I have a much better game.

1 minute ago, Capt_Reginald_Black said:

 

The problem is your going off stats as well.  the biggest problem allot of players have (I used t be one of them)  is we look at a set up and say ohh this is a loss.  we set ourselves up to loose.

 

Turn off that win rate and color sceme and just crack on.  Ever since I turned xvm stats and win rate off I find I have a much better game.

 

 

The bit i like is the last match where it ran the timer and only 3 tanks left standing.  that is what I call a good game, not a clear win but a time out.

[HerbertNimble]

2 hours ago, Capt_Reginald_Black said:

 

The problem is your going off stats as well.  the biggest problem allot of players have (I used t be one of them)  is we look at a set up and say ohh this is a loss.  we set ourselves up to loose.

 

Turn off that win rate and color sceme and just crack on.  Ever since I turned xvm stats and win rate off I find I have a much better game.

 

 

The bit i like is the last match where it ran the timer and only 3 tanks left standing.  that is what I call a good game, not a clear win but a time out.

I honestly don't look much at the expected winrate. I've had enough games that were a predicted wr of less than 30% that we've won to not create about that.

 

I don't really play any different in a game that has a low wr predicted than I do in a high wr game.

 

I selected the games I posted (except the 2nd) because of the crappy matchmaking in regards to (mainly) the classes. The only time I really use xvm is whenever I'm up against a really good player. If I'm alone I might play slightly more careful than I would vs a tomato.

 

The only reason I brought xvm and winratio up is because Central brought it up earlier.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by HerbertNimble

[The_Ninja_Gaiden]

28 minutes ago, HerbertNimble said:

I honestly don't look much at the expected winrate. I've had enough games that were a predicted wr of less than 30% that we've won to not create about that.

 

I don't really play any different in a game that has a low wr predicted than I do in a high wr game.

 

I selected the games I posted (except the 2nd) because of the crappy matchmaking in regards to (mainly) the classes. The only time I really use xvm is whenever I'm up against a really good player. If I'm alone I might play slightly more careful than I would vs a tomato.

 

The only reason I brought xvm and winratio up is because Central brought it up earlier.

 

 

yes my comment was an open one to all people, not directed at you personally.  i often see shit mm of tanks and am surprised at times on how well my team or the enemy team has done.

 

[HerbertNimble]

So, I've been reading and posting on the WG-forums and I thought I'd post it here as well to see what you guys think.

 

Someone mentioned that arty could get siege- and travel-modes so I thought about that for a while..

 

 

 

Travel-mode mechanics are already in the game as of the introduction of the Swedish TD-line so it should just be a matter of deciding what stats should be tweaked by it if introduced into the artillery-category.

 

In my opinion, using siege-mode mechanics on artillery would mitigate some issues that has been brought up.

 

Suggested changes between siege-mode and travel-modes:
 

* Lock gun elevation and turret rotation while in travel-mode.

This would essentially be a nerf to their ability to defend themselves and might seem contradictory at first, seeing as how the complaint is that they are now essentially defenseless in close quarter situations. But in conjunction with the other suggestions below I think it balances out in the end.

 

* Increase penetration while in travel-mode and remove the stun effect.

Basically, increasing the penetration while preventing them from actually aiming properly will ensure that they are somewhat capable of defending themselves if the enemy is dumb enough to drive straight into their firing arc (basically right in front of them).

 

* Increase/decrease hull traverse and/or speed

Increase the hull traverse while in siege-mode and drastically decreasing the movement-speed would make sure that once in siege-mode, you're basically a sitting duck, forcing you to switch into travel-mode if you want to stand any chance of defending yourself in close quarters.

[The_Ninja_Gaiden]

11 hours ago, HerbertNimble said:

So, I've been reading and posting on the WG-forums and I thought I'd post it here as well to see what you guys think.

 

Someone mentioned that arty could get siege- and travel-modes so I thought about that for a while..

 

 

 

Travel-mode mechanics are already in the game as of the introduction of the Swedish TD-line so it should just be a matter of deciding what stats should be tweaked by it if introduced into the artillery-category.

 

In my opinion, using siege-mode mechanics on artillery would mitigate some issues that has been brought up.

 

Suggested changes between siege-mode and travel-modes:
 

* Lock gun elevation and turret rotation while in travel-mode.

This would essentially be a nerf to their ability to defend themselves and might seem contradictory at first, seeing as how the complaint is that they are now essentially defenseless in close quarter situations. But in conjunction with the other suggestions below I think it balances out in the end.

 

* Increase penetration while in travel-mode and remove the stun effect.

Basically, increasing the penetration while preventing them from actually aiming properly will ensure that they are somewhat capable of defending themselves if the enemy is dumb enough to drive straight into their firing arc (basically right in front of them).

 

* Increase/decrease hull traverse and/or speed

Increase the hull traverse while in siege-mode and drastically decreasing the movement-speed would make sure that once in siege-mode, you're basically a sitting duck, forcing you to switch into travel-mode if you want to stand any chance of defending yourself in close quarters.

they just need to stop messing with it an leave it well alone and just limit it to 2 in a 15 player battle team.  (max 3 in 30 team battles.

 

[HerbertNimble]

Well, that's obviously not going to happen..

[The_Ninja_Gaiden]

9 hours ago, HerbertNimble said:

Well, that's obviously not going to happen..

same as allot of other things.  but that is my opinion and a lot of other peoples too.  others are 1 arty per game and others are remove altogether.

 

[damage_inc]

Arty is a good class it should not be removed or clan wars would be a stalemate of super heavies and would be impossible to break the landowner, complaining about arty is stupid, stop crying about it and try playing it. and also be smart about your positioning on the map dont be a retard in a IS7 going to the middle of the map with no cover. in randoms arty is still useful because it helps break the defenses of hull down vehicles like E4s, T30s and T34s, also who doesn't enjoy hitting a stat padding T67 with a HMC?

Edited April 11, 2017 by damage_inc