Info panel extended can't be legal?

[Nor.DuFFman]

Well, I was in a group discussion on facebook about the info panel extended after someone posted a picture and other people reacting on it. And in short; Wargamings fair play policy is listing this as illegal:  "Modifications that alert you when spotted vehicles are reloading or show enemy vehicles’ reloading timers"
So my argument was: "The info panel only shows you the time it takes to reload and doesnt give you an actual live counter or tell you when the enemy is reloading, therefore it has to be legal". (unlike the OTM reload counters)
I also used an analogy about it being the same as just writing down the reload time of different tanks on a piece of paper and having it by the computer.

 

But then I decided to install it on a second account just to test it and after looking into it in more detail, the Info panel extended actually shows different reload times for the same tank depending on what loadout the tank has equipped. And that means it cannot be legal. You are not supposed to know what crew and equipment the enemy is using and what their actual reload time is. Knowing this gives an unfair advantage.

 

However, IF this mod only showed the fastest possible reload time (BiA on crew, Vents, Rammer and Consumables) on all tanks (like you just take it for granted that everyone has maxed it) OR it showed the same info as you can get in the garage, then it would be legal. But it dont, it actually changes depending on the loadout.

I will include some pictures to show you that it actually differs depending on what equipment enemy tank is using.

- Norwegian DuFFman

 

[Quaksen]

Just going to add two things here;

Not forbidden for now, but may change in the future:

• Mods that reveal players' additional equipment.

and

Legal:

• Reload time indicator (approximate with no countdown). Example.

Though, what you're showing, is anything but "approximate", but still doesn't show the countdown.

 

The first picture shows the reload time for Brothers in Arms + Case of Cola. Even though you show Case of Cola not being used.

Second one adds the Ventilation and the Rammer.

 

Added note: Mod author claims it doesn't take into account equipment.. heh. Time to post in his thread I guess.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Quaksen
Edit, added note

[Nor.DuFFman]

7 minutes ago, Quaksen said:

Even though you show Case of Cola not being used.

Yeah, I wasnt using it,  I switched to fire extinguisher. The Info panel is just actually wrong about it =) Maybe it cant detect if you are using cola or not, and therefore it assumes that you do.

 

But my point here is that it actually gives you an unfair advantage and I can't see how this particular case it is contributing to the game in a positive way (as Wargaming classifies it.)

I do however think the infopanel should be allowed, but it shouldnt tell you the actual reload times of the enemy. It should (as I said above) either tell you the fastet possible, or the garage default or something.

[Quaksen]

Yeah - as my added note says, the mod author claims it doesn't take into account equipment.. and he agrees that it's not something it should.. but it does do that...

[Nor.DuFFman]

I actually just reinstalled the mod to check how it is with a 55% crew (50% commander) and no extra stuff.

[Quaksen]

The mod assumes Brothers in Arms + Premium Food Consumable.

 

And then it adds Ventilation + Rammer, if those are on the tank...

 

That's not good.. especially since the mod author claims it doesn't do that...

 

Aslain has posted in the mod's thread here;

https://koreanrandom.com/forum/topic/32323-0917-info-panel-extended-информационная-панель-текущей-цели/page-10

[Aslain]

@Nor.DuFFman 

 

I will remove reload indicator from the config until he fixes it.

 

ps. what app have you used to write on pictures?

[Nor.DuFFman]

9 minutes ago, Quaksen said:

And then it adds Ventilation + Rammer, if those are on the tank...

Yep, and that is exactly my point, the mod shouldnt tell you this info. 

IMO it should say: (from 100% crew, no BiA, no equipment and consumables) - (100% with BiA, equipment and consumables)

So in case of the T34 the mod would say: Reload: 11.87s  - 14.4s (or whatever is the correct amount)

 

Edit: 

4 minutes ago, Aslain said:

I will remove reload indicator from the config until he fixes it.

Smart =) 

 

4 minutes ago, Aslain said:

ps. what app have you used to write on pictures?

I use Photoshop!

Edited January 30, 2017 by Nor.DuFFman

[Nor.DuFFman]

@Aslain  Btw: You can check out Greenshot, which is a "screenshot tool" that allows you to write directly on the screenshots. I use it alot

[Aslain]

So I did some research and in-depth test, and compared what WG said to me, and to the people on asia server for example. 

 

Reload indicator is allowed when:

- it's static (no countdown) [this is the biggest and probably main issue they had with this mod]

- it's approximate (as of not 100% the same as in real)

- WG asia also mentioned base reload (but they could have approximate in mind)

 

I belive the current version of Info Panel should be ok. I also showed WG a link to Info Panel mod, so they can check it, and the reply to me was "allowed".

 

 

[Nor.DuFFman]

Okay =) Ill trust you on that topic then!
 

Edit:

Only problem here is if it says on the modcreators page that the mod does not include equipment calculation (but it does), and WG believes it without testing it. And then we are left with a false positive?. :/

Edited January 30, 2017 by Nor.DuFFman

[Quaksen]

The Info Panel did change based on what equipment was mounted.. but beyond that, it just assumes that everyone uses Brothers in Arms and food consumable. So not accurate in all situations (just accurate when the assumptions are correctly fitting the target), and it doesn't show a timer after the shot.

 

Received Damage Announcer, for example, assumes everyone has Brothers in Arms and using a Rammer, regardless of changes their make to crew/tank.

[Nor.DuFFman]

Yes,  but i still think the best option for the mod is to show the: From Base - To Max (like I mentioned before)

For T34: 11.87s - 14.4s

Then there would be no question about it being legal, and it would be 100% fair

[Aslain]

I requested a base reload version from ekspoint, we shall see what he says, but I have a feeling he will say what he said before, that the mod is showing everything approximated.

 

If you feel insecure you can edit the config and remove {Reload} macro for now.

 

When I checked O-Ho with mounted gun rammer + ventilation + 100% crew

 

Gun reload time 14.34sec, while Info Panel showed 13.45s, so it's not 100% accurate in this case.