Illegal mods

[Grandorf]

Hi

 

Wanted to start a discussion/poll on what fans of Aslains modpack think 

of these "banned" mods.

 

First of, you cant hack Wot. Nobody has succeeded. That would give devastating 

effects like "godmode", "autospot", "shoot through objects" et.c.

 

So what we are talking about is mods that give some sort of advantage. 

OTM-reload is the newest to gain acceptance despite having been illegal.

Not so long ago any zoom-mod was illegal. 

 

So what gives unfair advantage? Binoculars? Goldammo? Autoloader? 

Hell, even SerB thinks "sixth sence" perk was too much.

 

Tundra is coming strong, destroyed objects on minimap is widely used. 

 

Lasers and tracers are ridicoulus and aim-bot is a stupid mod to use.

 

So what are youre opinions?

[Almace]

Probably a very interesting stance but I think, that pretty much every mod gives an advantage/disadvantage.

It's simply depending on what you do with the certain information given and who utilizes it.

 

For example, you could say that even contour icons and/or XVM give you an advantage, because you can determine the enemy's setup far more quickly (especially inexperienced players) and therefore make more informed decisions, more quickly.

 

On the other hand, even with all the information in the world, people who can't utilize these infos don't benefit from them as much.

 

So it really depends on who is using what and how.

 

 

Guess, you'd have to specify in which environment the mods come into play (tier 9/10, mainly with very experienced players, in e-sports, etc.) and how much of a potential the specific mods might have - which still doesn't mean that everyone can actually make the most use of that.

 

Things that are part of the standard game ("gold" ammo, etc.) don't really bother me too much.

If the developer thinks that they are good to use, then that's either fine with me or I would have to stop to play.

It's WG's job to balance that stuff out and as long as enough people accept it and the game isn't completely unplayable, it'll stay anyhow.

 

 

With all that being said, try-hards will always use everything they can, in order to look better than they actually are.

They just don't realize that or have any shame about it.

I think that it's simply up to everyone individually, to determine what kind of people they want to be.

[Maitri]

I hate to say it but until Wargaming develops a method to catch people who are using illegal mods, then ipso facto, there are no illegal mods. Sadly, in today's society, if people can get away with it, they will attempt to do so until the risk outweighs the benefit. As there is currently no risk to using these mods lest you're an idiot and go around spamming that you are using them, I figure at least 10 to 15% of the player base are using them at any one time. It's why I strive to never knock stuff over if I am attempting to be stealthy. 

 

As for what I think what mods are illegal? Simple: Anything that would give you information or capabilities beyond the normal human and/or game engine. However this is somewhat vague, obviously, considering this is also dependent on many factors. For example, you could see where someone is aiming as you're using third person view. However using Line of Sight mods makes this much, much easier. 

 

This would require Wargaming to do two things:

 

Develop a set of rules and stand by them.

Develop a way to catch people who break said rules.

 

Until these two happen, it's all moot.

[Miac]

When it comes to mods outside of the Aslain's pack, I do not know what is worse: WG's policy on mods or the fact that even if you use the worst kind of mods (destructed objects marker, tracers, etc.) you risk only getting a temporary ban, a week or so for a first time offender. Since the detection and policy on mods is so blurry, most people get away with it never getting caught.

 

If we are talking about Aslain's modpack here, there are no mods which would be considered downright cheating but I will give my opinion on what I think are mods that give way too much advantage:

 

1. Zoom In and Zoom out mods - Zooming in makes it easy to hit weakspots; Zooming out indefinitely makes it so you can see the spotted enemy's precise position over tall obstacles like buildings which usually would mean you'd have to move closer - both are unfair IMO

2. Direction indicator extended 1.07 by spoter - this mod TELLS YOU when you have a clear shot on an enemy which you would normally have to look for on minimap and check if you have a visual on it manually. The fact that it marks multiple enemies at the same time is even more unfair.

3. ALL damage panels except Recieved damage announcer 2.5 (NA legal) - all of these mods will tell you name of the tank who shot you even if they weren't spotted. I did a research on the NA forums and devs said that these mods mine data that is normally not available to the client.

4. Minimap tank view extended - basically tells you where the spotted enemy is looking at where you'd normally have to check for yourself by looking at it instead of the minimap

5. Any mods that mine exact reload time or other enemy player information (OTM reload??)

 

Again, it is very difficult to claim which are unfair and which are not especially when you have to rule by your own ethic instead of having a clear policy from WG EU.

[Almace]

Don't quote me on that but I'm assuming that #5 can't be done.

Afaik, those reload-timers are merely estimates and you can't access player-specific information, such as crew skills and equipement/consumables.

 

Otherwise, such a mod would exist as well, since it's much more "useful" as only for the reload.

[Grandorf]

If you want to be a good player and eventually compete for 

worldwide fame and money, then you have to play absolute 

vanilla.

 

If you are a statpadder then these mods can help you. 

 

There are better ways to succeed in WoT, play in team, platoons. 

 

Some nice mods so the game looks pretty, some cold beers 

and a good radiochannel on VLC.     But thats just me    :)

[Grandorf]

More opinions folks.

 

I know you have all tried them.

 

The ranting started when Warpack gained attention 

and Sela got caught "testing" it. 

He got a slap on his fingers but the damage was done 

and everybody said clans are all using illegal mods. 

 

Ofcourse there are amazing players that dont need 

these to be good at WoT, they have an eye for this game.

 

Like Almace said, its mostly up to youreselves and how much

info you can handle.

 

It seems we have reached the peak on how many "unfair" mods 

we can produce from the info given from the server. Therefore I 

think the excitement will level out and players will tune down the 

amount of mods they will cram into the game.

[tadaska]

Arty mod. The one that leaves a red don't when you fire. Don't know how many use it, I don't think many as most arty don't relocate after they fired but I don't see them taken out. My ELC got shot by arty once using that mod I think. I'd just come back to my PC and battle had started. I fired a shot at an out of range tank but within draw distance and a short while later I was dead. I wasn't spotted or camping bush and all tanks had long gone from base and in battle so no reason for arty to shoot base unless he had that red dot appear.

[Maitri]

Arty mod. The one that leaves a red don't when you fire. Don't know how many use it, I don't think many as most arty don't relocate after they fired but I don't see them taken out. My ELC got shot by arty once using that mod I think. I'd just come back to my PC and battle had started. I fired a shot at an out of range tank but within draw distance and a short while later I was dead. I wasn't spotted or camping bush and all tanks had long gone from base and in battle so no reason for arty to shoot base unless he had that red dot appear.

 

Just FYI, this only works if you're looking in the location when they fire so it's not really any different than just watching for artillery fire. It just replaces the spot of your memory. Instead of you having to remember exactly where an artillery fired from, it remembers for you. Not all that OP in my opinion as the artillery should be moving in between shots. 90% don't.

[tadaska]

A mod that allows you to see spotted tanks out of draw distance would be an OP mod. But I guess that would require the spotter to have an XVM mod the same as me that is designed to send/receive all the necessary data to each other.

[Grandorf]

Hi

 

Still going for opinions.

 

 

Mods that has been banned but now used:

 

"XVM"

"Zoom"

"enemy direction on minimap"

"enemy last seen on minimap"

"damage taken by unspotted enemy" 

"Attac"

"OTM reload"

"Direction box"

"Advanced Aimingsystem"

"Hitskins"

 

Maybe some others?

 

 

Mods that are commonly used:

 

"Tundra"

"destroyed objects on minimap"

"Automatic fire extinguisher"

 

Maybe more, depends on what forums you read.

 

 

Mods that sadly also are used:

 

"aimbot"

"Shadow" 

"redball"

"readpoll"

"something was hit"

"Lasers"

"Tracers"

"Remove penetrateable objects" 

"X-Ray"

"Cameleon"

"Marked nondestructable objects" 

"Arty aim in tanks"

 

Probably more, these makes the game ridiculous. 

 

 

Mods that are discontinued or urban myths:

 

"Glasstank"

"Sixth Sense without perk"

"Shoot through objects"

 

 

Which are acceptable? Do they make you better? 

Should WG force vanilla?

[Almace]

As stated above already, the question of mods being "acceptable", is up to people themselves.

Everyone is going to have a different opinion about it.

 

As far as increasing skill goes, I think that some mods really help you to perform better, than you would without using any.

 

Sometimes,you can really only be better while using certain mods.

For example, if you have very low situational awareness, using atac or enemy direction indicators can help you paying more attention when it's needed.

Other times, you can even learn how to play better in the long run as well.

If you start using hitskins and learn more weakspots, you may end up remembering them better and skip them after a while.

And if mods do nothing for people, then who even cares if they use any?

 

But even if you don't learn to play better in the long run, the slight, temporary improvements are making the game a little bit more fun, Imo.

When really bad players start performing better, it's nicer for your own team.

And if enemies are more challenging (not overpowering), then that equals more fun for me as well.

Facerolling everything or not being able to do anything, makes you lose interest in the game faster too, I think.

 

So, I guess, forcing vanilla wouldn't be a good idea for the overall game.

Bad players would stay really bad (or stay bad longer), enjoy playing less and will probably leave sooner.

And bad players is what WoT is based on, for the most part.

 

 

Ultimately, I'm of the opinion that mods help keeping people interested in the game more.

Either by making them better players, giving them the illusion of performing better or simply giving them something new in an old game.

Douchebags will always find ways to use dirty stuff, in order to feel better about themselves, anyway and banning all mods isn't going to stop them from using any or exploiting something else.

[Grandorf]

@Almace

 

Absolutely. New players will always be like kids in the candystore when 

they find these "cheat" mods. Eventually it will fade out when they get 

the hang of the game and the tanks.

When they join teams and platoons and genuinly want to be good they

will more and more go for less mods. 

 

Honestly I would be ashamed if my gameplay would be filled with lasers, 

tracers, chameleons, redballs, blackskies and what not. 

 

I think that is why WG kinda gave up on mods, they cant controll them and 

good players will always prevail no matter what they are up against.

 

P.S.

I found a fun way of trolling with my tanks, If Im one of the remaining few 

in my team I shoot at distant objects to trigger "destroyed objects on minimap"

[Aslain]

I found a fun way of trolling with my tanks, If Im one of the remaining few  in my team I shoot at distant objects to trigger "destroyed objects on minimap"

 

Briliant and simple :) 

[pavl0v]

I'm banned from ESL  with Aslain mod pack! What to do? Why I did not receive any warning. It's not fair ...
729 days !!! 12 points...???

[Grandorf]

Hi

 

This is a sad weekend for WoT. Its called entrapment. 

 

They dont give any guidelines or lists. They create res_mods 

folder for people to make mods. 

 

Then they realize people are very clever and create mods that 

do more than just make tankicons pretty. 

 

They still dont now what to do with all these mods that take 

advantage of info sent between server and client. 

 

HERES THE FUCKED UP PART: They create a software that 

can find out if you use mods. They inform the players to take 

part in the testing. 

Then when they see its working they ban everybody.

[Grandorf]

Something is still strange. Why are they banning everybody regardless of mod?

WG doesnt like what has happened to modding.

Still they dont really mind, its a small enough problem. Most people play for fun 

anyway.

 

My conclusion is that they still cant pinpoint wich mods are used. 

It pissed of ESL that spent so much time and effort on this system 

so they use scaretactics and comes down hard on everybody 

using anything.

[Someone]

Mods that are discontinued or urban myths:

"Sixth Sense without perk"

That one at least back in February was still working in the Warpack mod package (I was tired of hearing about it and the great advantages Warpack was suppose to give so I tried it for a week to test the various combinations of the mods to see for myself). No clue what it triggers were based on however so may not be a "complete" sixth sense so to speak. The things that did stick out was obviously the laser beams and tracers esp. for counter arty and a very much more accurate reload timer (I ran Warpack reload timer & OTC timer and the Warpack timer was more accurate and usually a second or two lower compared to OTC) work while some others I can't really see how they would be illegal (black sky etc.).

[Aslain]

Reposting Leeuniverse post from wot forums:

 

Looks like he was only banned from WOT for 1 week.

Also, Wargaming should have actually told him "specifically" what mod he was banned for, so I'm not sure on what to think on this.

 

Oh, I see what ESL is.....  Reading through one of the threads it specifically states from ESL that all mods allowed by Wargaming are allowed by ESL.

So, looks like people shouldn't have been banned.

 

 

FoaMeA said:

Hello, 

 

We currently don't have a white list of mods in ESL. We allow all the mods that WG is currently allowing. 

 

Best Regards,

FoaMeA, ESL EU WoT Game Head

 

 

As to Wargaming NA, the being able to click through an object to auto-aim, IS legal.  It's somewhere on this forum.

But I think the version of that mod that shows the "outline" of the tank through objects might not be?  But, not sure on that.

I still need to refind that statement from Wargaming on the forum and screenshot it.

 

Further however, Wargaming EU doesn't have a banned mod list, so they essentially allow everything, though the "obvious" stuff like removal of trees etc. could get one banned, but you I guess don't have anything in your pack like that, so sounds more stupidity of Wargaming and ESL to me.

This is why Wargaming NA finally created their list, because a Famous person "Sela" right, got temp banned for a couple of mods he used.

Wargaming RU has had a list forever......  What's sad is their list allows enemy gun direction, but Wargaming NA bans it.  Me so sad..... LOL, that's the one other mod I want legal.

Like, I'm glad Wargaming NA finally made the reload timer legal, as long as it doesn't data mine exact reload, only shows base reload.

 

But, I don't know what's so complicated to have just ONE Uniform list across all servers, that's clear and direct.  I mean, it's easy as crap to do.

But, it's Wargaming, nothing is easy for them.  Bunch of quality control idiots running that place.

 

So, like I said, it just looks like another random idiot at ESL and/or Wargaming doing things because they feel like it, incorrectly interpreting the rules, or whatever.

Cause, I see people were banned using mods that aren't even close to illegal, and have always been legal, like XVM, Sixth Sense and Jimbo's sights.

 

Looks like there's nothing you can do about it.....  That person using your pack however and says he got a one week ban from WOT needs to find out EXACTLY what mod he got banned for.  He needs to make clear that all mods he's using seems legal according to EU, NA & RU rules.  Though, like I said that auto-aim through objects even without high-lighting people might disagree on.  NA at least though has said it's fine.  Me, I only use the one of that through AAS, so it doesn't highlight.

 

Anyway, looks like such fun ahead for them all......  Looks like just ESL foot in mouth.  Nothing you really can do at this point until we know more.

 

http://play.eslgaming.com/worldoftanks/europe/news/256407/

Oh, I see ESL are specifically referring to Wargaming's hugely flawed "Creation of Derivative Works" statement, which essentially ban's all mods if read for what it says, but clearly all mods aren't banned.

Again, this is part of why the banned mod list for NA was created, because of that stupid statement.

[Tinkicker]

@Almace

Absolutely. New players will always be like kids in the candystore when

they find these "cheat" mods. Eventually it will fade out when they get

the hang of the game and the tanks.

When they join teams and platoons and genuinly want to be good they

will more and more go for less mods.

Honestly I would be ashamed if my gameplay would be filled with lasers,

tracers, chameleons, redballs, blackskies and what not.

I think that is why WG kinda gave up on mods, they cant controll them and

good players will always prevail no matter what they are up against.

P.S.

I found a fun way of trolling with my tanks, If Im one of the remaining few

in my team I shoot at distant objects to trigger "destroyed objects on minimap"

Your trolling method...is this the reason I see people randomly firing shots? Granted, it's usually in the beginning so I guess a more realistic idea would be that they either want to highlight themselves for action on the enemy's radar, or they just like wasting coin.

Either way...your idea is pretty slick. :)

[Tinkicker]

Like many here have inferred, the only mods I believe should be illegal are ( a ) ones which reduce the game to a god-mode free-for-all sort of thing, or ( b ) mods which aren't accessible to everyone from the elite to the newbie.

Just my opinion :)

But I do have to wonder why there IS a difference among different servers. Why are things banned here (NA) but not elsewhere, and vice-versa?

Edited July 4, 2015 by Tinkicker

[sabrehawk]

Pretty simple. ANY MOD that gives a player ANY kind of gameplay advantage over a player who is not uing said mod to me is a CHEAT if it enables the player to perform better using it...but in reality...things arent that easy...so what is needed in such a situation

...a whitelist and approval process. This approval could be made by volunteer forum staff of game company, beta testers, a council of players....there should be no need to pay people for such a approval process putting financial strain on the company.

 

To me any mod that tampers with  Aiming mechanics, Visibility , Zoom , adds any form of automation to core gameplay is on 1st priority to be revised closely.

Edited July 13, 2015 by sabrehawk

[AdgiTex]

The only mods I have issue with is the one that seems to keep an enemy hidden while firing at me WELL within my view range (I'm talkin' under 100-200m in most cases). I see that far too often here lately, and when it happens, I tend to save the game and send it in with a complaint. Sorry, but if there are 3 of us being fired on by an enemy within 100m or so, how could he NOT light up to atleast one of us, esp to something like a hellcat with 500m view range. 

 

Other than that and being shot through mountains by non-spg's pulling 'arty shot', I don't see anything wrong with running anything included in Aslain's modpack. I am on a very crappy verizon 1.1-3mb dsl line (which gives me 1.2 btw) and a 4 yr old (upper end) laptop... mods don't give me an advantage, they help to level the playing field agains unicums that are sitting on 50-100mb connections with a $3000+ gaming system. "That", is whats truly "unfair" to those of us limited in such ways by geography and financial considerations. 

 

I have to say overall, WG's system works better than the original Diablo... it clocked the game to the slowest person's bandwidth, on dialup. Yawn lag bigtime! 

[Quaksen]

enemy hidden while firing at me WELL within my view range (I'm talkin' under 100-200m in most cases). I see that far too often here lately, and when it happens, I tend to save the game and send it in with a complaint. Sorry, but if there are 3 of us being fired on by an enemy within 100m or so, how could he NOT light up to atleast one of us, esp to something like a hellcat with 500m view range. 

522 meter viewrange, an E 25 could be 172.56m away, and be firing at you... I probably missed some factors, but.. that's a starting point.

[Grandorf]

Hi

 

Camo is very confusing. Seems so unpredictable and unfair.

 

Here is a good site to try out and actually see the difference: 

 

http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camo-calculator

[AdgiTex]

I guess I should have clarified the circumstances. This is seen in vehicles like my hellcat, with all crew at 100% camo, sixth sense, all 3 camo types available, and a good way into situational awarness and recon...and usually double glassed or binos and net. My view is 500m with cola onboard as std equipment. Im no uni, never want to be, but I've been playing fairly regularly since dec 2012... some of the things I see definitely don't jive. I could see it if 1 or 2 didn't pop him out or land a blind HE shot, but 3 of us? For the record, the other 2 were like a wiggle gun td and a scout... he was right across a bridge from us. Someone should have had this guy lit... I could see *where* he was, tracers were clear... but he killed all 3 of us out without our ever being able to see or hit him. *Thats* the kinda circumstances I meant.

Sure, he could have 4 perks across the crew, with rations, bia, etc. Regardless, nothing should keep him hidden while *firing* inside 100m, or even 200 when facing the vision on my hellcat (and his not really having cover to start with). No tank has good camo with guns blazing... I get the overall mechanics in use, but always trying to learn more of course. Im also familiar with the camo calculator, which still doesn't explain *these* type circumstances to my satisfaction :-/

Anyway, back to illegal mods! I say bottom line... if anyone can dl and install them without a degree in computer science, I say go for it, sans the obvious god mode stuff.

Happeh tankin yall !

[TBG]

With some good double bush mechanics you can easily shoot at close range enemies without being spotted. There are no mods that I am aware of that change any mechanic of the game. Mods only work with information sent to your computer from the wot server. There is no way to change anything in the game, such as your ability to spot the enemy. That would be hacking the wot servers, which is not possible. Even the infamous warpack only relays information sent to your computer that is not normally visible, it is not changeing any rules or giving you any super abilities.

Edited July 16, 2015 by TBG

[AdgiTex]

That would be hacking the wot servers, which is not possible...

 

Hrm, wow, if thats the case, maybe the guys at WG should teach the US gov't a few things on server security! Actually, they should drop gaming all together and go into cyber security, they'd be rich beyond any previous level of rich.... If that's the case, they've uncovered a golden unicorn imho. NO computer system is beyond being hacked that i'm aware of.

 

If you read the details in what i've said, you'd see that i mentioned "NO COVER" being available, he was in OPEN SPACE.  i get double bush mechanics, i'm not a noob here. Just saying there's some shady stuff going on with a few players i encounter. I'm also pretty well versed on armor/pen mechanics, camo/spotting mechanics, etc. Its with all that in mind that makes me wonder about some of the things i run into on rare occasions. Were it more often, or in my favor even ONCE in a while, i'd let it pass unnoticed.

 

Anyway, break a track!

[Quaksen]

Yeah, it's soooo likely that someone magically hacks the WG servers, and magically messes with the whole system that manages numbers, without it being detected... suuure... :P

[AdgiTex]

like they'd ever publish or make public if they got hacked. really.